Please think of the alternative!
As David Campbell points out… “Liberals who want to punish Nye by staying home on election day should consider the alternative.”
Sorry to make you vomit in your mouth so early in the morning!
Yes, a lot of us are incredibly disappointed with Glenn Nye. How easy it has become to bash Nye by those that don’t live in the 2nd district. Righty Rigell could otherwise be my representative in Congress. It’s bad enough having total GOPpers representing the Beach in the GA, but Rigell coupled with McDonnell and a likely GOPper majority amongst Virginia’s delegation to Congress is going to be miserable, especially for us in the Beach.
I have a Glenn Nye bumper sticker on my car and his yard sign in my front yard. Over the weekend, I’ll put up some Nye support stuff on this blog. So, go ahead progressives. Start bashing us at VB Dems for supporting Nye.
For God’s sake, Righty Rigell, as announced in today’s Virginian-Pilot, has signed the Tea Party pledge. Great, our potential new congressman has pledged himself to a group founded on hate and racism. More vomit in my mouth!
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August 26th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Thanks for providing the link with the text of the pledge. Let’s see…
Audit the Federal Reserve; Balanced Budget Amendment; vote against any tax or fee increase; protect the rights of free speech; defund or repeal Obamacare; increase transparency and accountability; fight for the sovereignty of America.
Egads!! What a litany of hateful and racist talking points!! I can certainly see where there would be a vigorous debate over some of these points among reasonable liberals and conservatives. But you’re showing your true colors, Eileen. “a group founded on hate and racism”. Nobody believes that any more, I bet even you know you’re just stoking the rhetoric.
I love the last line of the article…”Nye…said the pledge is meaningless”. That’s comforting. Making a commitment in writing is “meaningless”. I guess he thinks even less of his own campaign promises from two years ago…heck, they weren’t even in writing! I wonder if he would say that the verbal oath he and Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters took when they became our representatives is “meaningless”.
Keep vomiting in your own mouth, Eileen. The taste isn’t going to be any better in November.
August 26th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Don’t forget about Kenny Golden. He will be speaking to the Sierra Club at their next meeting.
August 26th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Open Minded: Gee, how could Eileen possibly think the Tea Party is racist?
Rep. Nye is correct — the pledge is meaningless. Do you think “making a commitment in writing” is binding on Rigell in any way? If Rigell is elected, how long do you think it will be before he breaks his pledge to “vote against any tax or fee increase?”
GNProgressive: Golden’s best hope was to attract Tea Party supporters. Now that the Hampton Roads Tea Party has sold out to “the Republican political machine in Hampton Roads [that] needs to be defeated,” Golden is toast. I would be interested in hearing him speak at the Sierra Club (date?), if only to hear him try to explain his support for offshore drilling.
August 26th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Wow. Links. One of the links has a picture of a Missouri school bus driver who’s against illegal immigration. Is that a statement that all school bus drivers are against illegal immigration? Or is everyone against illegal immigration a school bus driver? How about those outside of Missouri? The Tea Party is representatively American in that it includes people from all walks of life, even those who don’t share the same decorum as the majority. And no, I didn’t say that “not being in the Tea Party is un-American.”
The accusation of spitting on black congresspeople or calling them the “N” word during their triumphant “in your face, America” health care march through the streets has been convincingly debunked by the $100,000 bounty offered for any video footage of the slurs or spits. Hundreds or thousands of cameras covering the event from every angle and yet the reward sits, unclaimed.
Stoke, stoke, stoke. Grow up.
August 26th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Open Minded: I see — the frequent presence of racist signs at Tea Party events doesn’t mean they are racist, they are just representative of people from all walks of llfe (which just happen to include racists)?
And ignore Mark Williams?
And Rep. Cleaver, Rep. Carson, and Civil Rights hero Rep. Lewis all lied about the incident (walking into the Capitol where they work, not exactly a “triumphant march through the streets”) and if you haven’t seen it on video it didn’t happen?
It may be true that not all Tea Party supporters are racist, but polls of Tea Party supporters show there is a higher proportion than in the general public. As much as they (and you) would like to deny it, there is a strong element of racism in the Tea Party.
August 26th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
The Tea Party definitely doesn’t support Rigell. Karen Hurd does and she destroyed her credibility with the Tea Party membership along time ago. Trust me, this is going to backfire on Rigell big time. He loses the middle and the tea party rank and file will never support him because of his donation record.
August 26th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
GNProgressive: The article sure makes it sound like the Hampton Roads Tea Party supports Rigell. Why do you think they don’t?
August 26th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
The article says that Karen Hurd, “founder” of the HRTP and “chair” of the “board” is supporting Rigell. Karen destroyed all her credibility when she endorsed Loyola in the primary. If that wasn’t enough, there is a letter from Karen about Rigell still on the HRTP website. It goes through exactly why no one should vote for him if they call themselves conservatives. She doesn’t speak for the Tea Party, she speaks for her own egotistical interests. I’ve been CCed on tons of emails today of angry libertarians and tea partiers calling for Hurd’s head because all of them despise Rigell. Rumor has it that the HRTP needed money to operate and some cash may have changed hands. I think you know as well as I do that Rigell is not afraid to throw money around to gain support.
Also, the article says Campaign for Liberty supports Rigell. I got a call from their rep down here saying that he had nothing to do with this pledge other than suggesting the audit the fed plank. Other Tea Party groups, such as the New Republic Patriots are furious with Hurd for trying to speak for them. What RIgell just did is piss off the entire rank and file of the Tea Party by claiming support from them when really all that happened was he pressured and/or payed off Hurd to support him.
Anyone who knows Karen knows she is not respected or liked by the members of the Tea Party. She is egotistical and disingenuous. She said we need to destroy the GOP then goes and endorses the candidate she was disgusted with in the primary. She had no credibility. Besides, aside from the pilot article, see what results pop up when you google “scott rigell tea party.” They are all incredibly negative towards Scott.
Mark my words, this has and will continue to backfire on the Rigell campaign. Hurd is done for in local politics and she will be removed from her position or made irrelevant in the coming weeks.
August 26th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
GNProgressive: Thanks! That’s very interesting. Please provide a link (or copy and paste) the letter from Karen about Rigell “that goes through exactly why no one should vote for him if they call themselves conservatives.”
August 26th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
My two cents worth? The whole manuever underlines two important things about the Rigell Campaign. First, the elitism of it’s inner circle. Second, they’re scarred about how many votes Kenny Golden might bleed off.
The Tea Party is loosely organized, so it’s leadership was never going to deliver it’s voters over en masse. That the Rigell Campaign failed to grasp that is striking.
So here we have Rigell publicly prostrating himself before the Tea Party, in return for…a lukewarm “Maybe” from it’s leadership? That looks so weak! It’s going to cost Rigell more swing voters than it will get him Tea Partiers.
This after the debates quagmire and you have to wonder whether or not Jason Miyares has a clue.
That said, the only thing hard right about the oath is the blanket no new tax or fee pledge. The rest is sensible enough.
Personally, I can argue this race all three ways as a socially conservative/fiscally moderate Republican. You can have Republican nominee Rigell, Republican Lite Nye, or previous RPVB Chairman Golden. I still haven’t made up my mind which way I’ll vote.
However, Republicans should have been able to roll in a district as Republican as VA-02 in 2010. If Rigell wins it, Rigell wins it; if Rigell loses, Miyares botched it.
August 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Great analysis Henry. I’m betting that come November if the Golden campaign is breathing and can get enough free media (TV and Radio love underdogs), people will vote for him just because he will be the only adult in the race. The stances on the issues are basically all the same, the only difference is which one has experience. Kenny has the better resume and the extensive military background, so if he can get his message out and the
Here is the link to Karen’s letter;
http://hrteaparty.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=257:scott-rigell-facts-theother-side-of-the-story&catid=34:frontpage
August 27th, 2010 at 4:06 am
Henry Ryto & GNProgressive: Thanks to both of you for the insights.
Golden will have to depend on free media, because has almost no campaign funds. Meanwhile, Rigell is 99% self-funded, with little support from anyone else. All the smart money is on Nye.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:12 am
It cut off the rest of my post, but I was saying that if Golden can stay alive till November and gets enough free media then he might finish ahead of Rigell. The media loves an underdog and Kenny is way more entertaining on TV than Nye and Rigell put together.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:19 am
No, Golden will definitely finish 3rd. How many in Hampton and on the Eastern Shore know him?
The point is Golden simply has to siphon off enough votes to let Nye slip past Rigell, with Glenn winning on a plurality in a three-way. That’s why the Rigell Campaign would try to cut a deal with the Tea Party.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:52 am
Rigell signed a “pledge” and Hurd flip-flopped from vehement opposition to semi-endorsement. (I wonder if anyone can confirm the rumor that “cash changed hands”). It doesn’t sound like it will necessarily result in enthusiastic support from rank-and-file conservatives. Will Tea Party supporters vote for Golden, or just stay home? (They don’t seem like “stay at home” types.)
On the other hand, Rigell’s apparent association with the Tea Party may actually rally Democrats and scare off moderate Republicans and independents.
August 27th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Kenny Golden has now come out for the Fair Tax, according to VNS. He has the Tea Party rank-and-file in the bag.
August 27th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
My sources tell me the Eastern Shore is in open revolt against Scott Rigell. I drove to Delaware last week for a surf contest and saw tons of Golden signs. So I think he is doing pretty good over there. Hampton, I’m not so sure. I think it is very possible that Rigell will implode and Kenny will come in distant second.
August 27th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
GN,
Rigell won the Eastern Shore in the Republican primary.
August 27th, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Melody Scalley has pissed the whole Eastern Shore off with her outspoken support of Rigell. Scott has gone around claiming endorsements of people he only met with and several people have left the party over there because of it. Melody formed this Eastern Shore GOP Group independent of the city committees over there and that has caused a serious rift.
August 28th, 2010 at 4:50 am
19 comments and they’re all about Rigell and Golden. See the problem Glenn Nye has created for himself? What a waste of an opportunity.
August 28th, 2010 at 7:13 am
It’s voters like spotter who are going to give control of the House to the Republicans.
Progressives are showing their true colors. They can’t be team players.
I’ll cut and paste a comment I made on the Blue Virginia website about the Nye election:
Enough is enough. Progressives won’t vote for moderates because they are not Democratic enough?
In the most recent poll conducted by Gallup, 42% of Americans self identified as conservative, only 20% as liberal or progressive with 35% as moderate. Gee, if the Democratic party is for progressives only, then just how have they been winning elections with only 20% of the vote?
If Democrats control Congress, and progressives are only 20% of the vote, that means more moderates then progressive voters voted for the Democratic candidates. Now, do you enjoy having Democratic representatives in Congress instead of Republicans? No you don’t unless that representation is 100% progressive, right? Ever heard about proportional representation? You’re only entitled to 20%. If you want to remain in majority you have to include some moderates in the mix or deal with a Republican majority in Congress.
August 28th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Went to the vbta to see the debate and only Golden spoke. He comes across as a defense hawk, social moderate, for the fair tax and not as much of a right winger as one would think a former gop chair would be. The people there took every open seat and they pressed a variety of current event issue questions. Not once has Nye or Riegell taken tough isses like this. Rigell waffled and dodged many questions at his town hall which was half volunteers and staff that show up everywhere else.
Cary the dpva tracker taped a guy asking if Rigell donated to Barack to keep Hillary out. http://vbdems.org/2010/08/heres-the-alternative/#comments I sent mine to Hillary but not anywhere near as much.
August 28th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Boyd,
No serious candidate would appear before a few dozen racist kooks (i.e. the VBTA).
LD,
Yes and No.
You’re right in that you can’t win an election without swing voters, unless your district is heavily towards one party.
However, spotter’s point is well-taken. Creigh Deeds couldn’t excite the Dems base, and the Dems were left with trying to scare their base about Bob McDonnell. In the same vein, if Nye can’t excite the Dems base, better find something very scary about Rigell.
August 28th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Henry,
Serious candidates were in the audience and took a moment to be recognized. Is Tanya Bullock a racist? I don’t think so. Are John Moss, Barbara Henley or Toni Hedrick racists? I have my doubts about that. Is Wally Erb a racist? Is Robert Dean a racist? There were others who’se faces I recognized but their names escape my memory.
August 29th, 2010 at 4:37 am
Little David -
Republicans. Democrats. Progressives. Conservatives. Liberals. Moderates.
All labels.
Not Democratic enough.
Your words, not mine.
The simple fact is, Glenn Nye betrayed his most important campaign promises.
We need to get beyond labels, and elect people of integrity who will keep their promises.
Labels don’t matter if promises are broken under the most minimal pressure.
If Glenn Nye will succumb to that pressure in a Congress in which his party label holds the clear majority, what further cowardice and betrayal can we expect from him?
August 29th, 2010 at 5:32 am
spotter,
You seem to think the Democratic Party revolves around you, and that if you do not agree, then it is not Democratic enough.
During Glenn’s campaign, I personally asked him to consider running as a Blue Dog. By his response at the time, I didn’t think he even knew what a Blue Dog was, but once he got up into Washington and figured out who they were he threw in with them. As far as I am concerned, that was a campaign promise kept and it was an important one.
Cowardice and betrayal? Well I guess maybe if you’re a liberal you’ll see that (label intentionally affixed to spotter) but if you are a moderate you might see courage and conviction. Nationally liberals poll only 20% and it is my guess that they would poll even less in Glenn’s district. If Democrats want a Democrat to represent this district, it is going to have to be a moderate Democrat otherwise it is going to end up being a Republican.
Go Glenn Nye go!
August 29th, 2010 at 6:04 am
Warning! Double post.
Henry Ryoto,
I do not know if the VBTA is a bunch of racist kooks, but I do know they are tax kooks. They have some good ideas that could be good for our nation if they were willing to compromise, but compromise is not in their agenda.
What’s good about their ideas? Unshackling American business through the Fair Tax. According to Free Trade rules, we’re not allowed to place tariffs on foreign goods or provide subsidies to American businesses. Well there is nothing illegal about completely removing the tax harness from American businesses and allowing them to compete world wide not just in our economy. The benefit to our nation will be from the jobs these businesses will provide and the taxes these employees will pay.
What’s wrong with the Fair Tax (in my opinion) is that it raises my personal taxes to give the likes of Paris Hilton a tax cut. They won’t compromise as long as the compromise means they must give up (in my opinion) their desire to destroy the American Way which is a progressive tax code.
August 30th, 2010 at 4:28 am
Nope. You care how “Democratic” or “liberal” or “blue dog” a candidate is. I really don’t.
I care that he keeps his promises, however they might be labeled.
If Glenn Nye didn’t intend to keep his promises, he shouldn’t have made them in the first place.
Now he’s running TV ads about what a courageous foreign service officer he was.
If only he had shown a scintilla of that alleged courage as a Congressman, we wouldn’t be having this ridiculous conversation.
I don’t think the Democratic party revolves around me.
I could give a #$%* about the Democratic party.
I expect my Congressman to keep his promises.
If he doesn’t, I won’t vote for him.
It’s as simple as that.
August 30th, 2010 at 4:45 am
Spotter,
So you’re going to vote for who? Do not pretend to be anything other then liberal, your previous posts expose you for it. You’ll just stay home and not vote for anybody? OK, hand the majority in the House to the Republicans and see just how much more satisfied you will be.
I do not recall Glenn making all the promises you say he made. I seem to recall him running as a centrist during his campaign. I guess it depends on who was listening as to which promises were made and which ones were kept.
I’d be willing to bet you also have major problems with Obama’s leadership, am I correct? Perhaps you will just stay home come election day in 2012 because Obama, too, has been unable to provide enough change to suit you.
August 30th, 2010 at 6:24 am
I think Nye sucks but looking at the other two candidates, I’m going to have to vote for Nye. Rigell is just too much of a GOP lapdog puppet for me to vote for him. The guy can’t answer a question and dodges the hard answers arather than be honest and get held accountable for his own views. (if he even has any). Golden seems “ok” but I’m not sure he is going to be much of a draw for the majority of the 2nd’s voters. So I’ll hold my nose and vote for NYe…
Sucks…
August 30th, 2010 at 7:13 am
Nye specifically promised to vote for health care reform.
He voted against it.
He floated a one page lame excuse at 7:00 p.m. on Saturday evening, then ran away like a sissy.
I’ve voted for Republicans before. I’ll vote for Republicans again.
I guess that makes me exactly the moderate Democrat that Lil David claims to seek.
I’ve been represented by Republicans during most of the 18 years I’ve lived in this area. The world did not stop. Whether so-called Democrats or so-called Republicans win elections around here, the very same entrenched interests that have always run Tidewater and the Commonwealth of Virginia win out, one way or another.
If Rigell wins, there is a chance that he will break his campaign promises the same way Nye did.
Obviously, there is no chance that Nye will keep his campaign promises.
If he loses, Glenn Nye will have to live with the unfortunate fact that he had his brush with history, an opportunity that he did not earn but that simply fell in his lap. Instead of standing up for what he claimed to believe in, he ran away like a whimpering coward.
If he wins, we will continue to be represented by Republicans, no matter what Glenn Nye calls himself.
August 30th, 2010 at 7:51 am
spotter,
Oh give me a break. Can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and claim to be a moderate? You’re a liberal/progressive and I am sorry if you are ashamed to fess up to it.
Can you not see that with Glenn caucusing with the Democrats you might still have Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House? Try getting Nancy into that position with a Republican majority.
Personally, I am not real enthused myself with Nancy as Speaker. But even I can look at the alternative and realize that it is not very appetizing either. You liberals are hard to live with, but conservatives are the ones who are impossible.
August 30th, 2010 at 9:12 am
spotter:
For the last several years, Republicans have been subjecting their own candidates to purity tests and systematically eliminating moderates. Their candidates must kowtow to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, and the Tea Party. They have even overthrown established incumbents to nominate radical extremists like Rand Paul, Sharon Angle, Marco Rubio, Ken Buck, and Joe Miller (hopefully, all of them will be rejected by a majority of the voters in November). Democrats should not replicate the Republican recipe for self-destruction.
The 2nd district is a swing district and one of the few competitive races in Virginia. It was held by a moderate Democrat for 14 years (Owen Pickett). That was followed by a pair of two-term Republicans (Ed Schrock & Thelma Drake). Glenn Nye is a moderate Democrat in the mold of Owen Pickett.
The only choice in the 2nd district this year is between:
1) Democrat Rep. Glenn Nye (who voted against health reform),
2) Republican Scott Rigell (who has vowed to repeal health reform or de-fund it), or
3) Independent Kenny Golden (who called health reform a government takeover of health care).
You may vote Republican — because you care so much about health reform?
Rep. Nye isn’t the liberal that some of us would prefer, but he did vote with the Democratic Party 82.6% of the time. Is anything less than 100% a failing grade? (Under the new grading scale in Virginia Beach Public Schools, 82.6% is a B). How much do you think Rigell or Golden would support the Democratic Party agenda? Is there really “no difference” between 82.6% B and 0.0% F?
If Democrats petulantly refuse to turn out and vote for their own candidate in November, they will not be punishing Nye. They will only be punishing themselves. They will virtually guarantee the election of Rigell, who has publically embraced Palin and the Tea Party agenda. If Nye’s defeat contributes to the Democrats losing their majority in the House, Rep. John Boehner will replace Rep. Nancy Pelosi as House Speaker and Democrats will lose control of key committees and the legislative agenda.
Some Democrats are disappointed in President Obama as well. Should they stay at home in 2012 as well? Should we just surrender the country to the Tea Party?
August 30th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
While I often disagree with David Campbell, and I am very willing to speak out when I disagree, to this comment I have nothing to add but applause. Very throaty applause at that.
August 30th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Just out of curiosity;
What exactly is the Democratic Party Agenda? I know the major bills, but if you could sum up what the “Democratic Issues” to voters such as yourself in the 2nd District, I would be much appreciated.
August 30th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
GNProgessive,
I am not sure that last inquiry was directed at me, but let me state why I have decided to throw in with Democrats.
With the Democrats you get sharp minds arguing for impossible outcomes, but they have good intentions as their motive. With the Republicans you have an unholy alliance of sharp minds motivated by money.
August 30th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
It was actually directed at both of you, since you seem to represent slightly different ends of the D spectrum.
As for your analysis, I happen to agree completely.
August 30th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
I think most people would agree that elected R’s lost the support of conservatives during Bush 2 because they wandered away from their conservative values and became big-spending pork-barreling Medicare-Part-D public-education-SOL big government hacks. That led to the somewhat-predictable D win in 2006 and their even bigger win in 2008.
And your advice (if one would call it that) is for the R’s to turn harder left? Brilliant. Exhibit A? John McCain.
Get used to that vomit taste in Eileen’s mouth. November can’t come soon enough.
August 30th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
OM,
SOL’s are a state program, enacted under Governor Jim Gilmore.
Medicare Part D is a case of “An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure.” If a Medicare recepient can’t afford their meds, then Medicare has to pay for the hospitalization. It’s much more cost-effective to help with the meds.
August 30th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
GNProgressive: The Democratic Party agenda is to follow through on past accomplishments (ex. implementing health reform) and completing other unfinished business (listed previously).
The Republican (“Party of No”) agenda is entirely negative, defined solely by what they are against. It isn’t just to roll back President Obama’s programs, it is to roll back President Johnson’s Great Society, and even President Roosevelt’s New Deal. Most people look to their government to solve problems, not walk away from them. Republicans offer no solutions. They have abandoned the middle ground, positioning themselves as a minority party in the long run.
Democrats will undoubtedly lose some seats in November (the party in the White House almost always does in the first midterm elections). People are also frustrated that the economic recovery hasn’t happened fast enough (if the economy were controlled by the President, there would never be a bad economy – at least not in an election year). However, I don’t believe this election will be a major turning point backwards to the failed Republican policies of the past.
August 30th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Henry Ryto: President Bush’s Medicare Part D was a modest improvement, but it had two big problems:
1) It wasn’t budgeted and it wasn’t paid for with either new revenue or spending cuts elsewhere, so it added directly to the deficit.
2) It still left senior citizens vulnerable to the “donut hole.”
President Obama’s health reform fixed it.
August 30th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
You’re right, Henry, I meant NCLB but I typed SOL. I also forgot to mention Campaign Finance Reform.
David, I know it’s hard for you to grasp, but how can you define a desire to return to the principles of our Founding Documents, primarily the Constitution, as the “Party of No” (besides that it’s a catchy jingle that somebody else came up with).
This country was founded on the basis of creating 50 experiments in representative democracy loosely aligned with each other for the purposes of national defense and interstate commerce. Today Congress has decided that my decision to not buy health care insurance affects commerce in the state of North Carolina, so it’s “Constitutional” to require me to buy a particular type of health insurance and fine me if I don’t. Today Congress has deemed that it is in the National Interest to collect taxes from me and spend them on a $1hospital in Connecticut named after Chris Dodd.
August 30th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
That was supposed to be a $100 million hospital in Connecticut
August 30th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
David–Thank you for putting things so eloquently. Whenever people complain about Nye or anyone else not being Democrat enough, all I can think of are the Republican attempts this past decade to purge their own party of those who don’t fit a narrow definition of their party.
I understand that some people are disappointed that Nye isn’t more liberal, but would it truly be possible to elect a more liberal Congressman in VA-02? I don’t see that happening in at least the next decade.
He didn’t vote with the big ticket items of healthcare and cap and trade, but he does have a good record for voting with the party overall. He also doesn’t want to defund or repeal healthcare, which is something that sets him apart from the other options. Voting for anyone else is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor
August 31st, 2010 at 4:15 am
“We’re not the party of no. We’re the party of Hell No.” – Sarah Palin
Republicans want to take us back to the sacred Principles of our Founding Fathers: the days of slave labor, when only white male landowners could vote, when our roads were muddy ruts,
when there was no standing army, and when corporations had free speech rights.Sorry, I refuse to wear one of those silly tri-corner hats.
August 31st, 2010 at 4:46 am
So where do the people stand who want health reform and lower emissions but think Cap and Trade and Health Care Reform are a sad joke? I mean seriously, 3000+ pages, I’ve read the bills, there is so much crap in there that will destroy this economy for lack of being totally thought through. I’m a democrat, but I am scared to death of some of the things in the health care bill. I mean just making people issue a 1099 for every $600 given to an entity is going to grind our economy to a virtual halt while people navigate the paperwork. Making vending machines have a separate panel for nutrition facts? I’m all for reform, but regulations like that are just ridiculous. If you dont know a twinke is full of fat and calories, the government shouldn’t mandate that someone tells you.
August 31st, 2010 at 7:54 am
GNProgessive,
I agree with you about the 1099 requirement, it is going to be a tremendous burden on my small business. I understand the rational behind the requirement, but wonder if there isn’t a better way of combating the problem then forcing me to deal with all that paperwork. I’m already forced to obtain receipts to justify my expenses during an audit, but now that is no longer good enough. I do not think it will cause the economy to grind to a halt, but it is going to be a tremendous headache for me personally.
August 31st, 2010 at 9:06 am
The 1099 requirement doesn’t take effect until 2012, so there is time to fix it. Both Republicans and Democrats want to revoke that provision. Senate Democrats added an amendment to revoke the 1099 provision to the bill providing loans and tax cuts to small businesses, but it was blocked by Republicans.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:31 am
I wonder when we will have independent polling of the 2nd district Congressional race?
August 31st, 2010 at 10:37 am
That’s a good question. But my guess is that even independent polling will show Glenn faces an uphill battle. But last time he was behind all the way until election day.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:51 am
The real issue is how on earth we can trust any party that feels the need to ram 3000+ page bills through the legislature (democrats and republicans). Health Reform didn’t need 3,000 pages, what the President sought to accomplish could have been done with far, far less. It begs the question what else is being done. I can think of plenty of ways to reduce emissions without implementing a cap and trade scheme. Same with increasing access without a tax on health insurance (the mandate).
I wonder when the ads of Rigell ignoring questions on the GI bill will come out. Nye has so much dirt to play with.
August 31st, 2010 at 11:29 am
GNProgressive,
But what did Republicans come up with as an alternative? They proposed eliminating the pre-existing conditions exercised by the medical insurance industry without expanding the base of those who pay into the system. Everybody likes that idea right? Yeah, everybody who has their head up a dark place does.
If you eliminate the pre-existing condition without requiring everyone to pay for coverage, everyone who has coverage will see their premiums go up. The healthy will continue to go around without coverage and only the sick will sign up. I do not see how the Republican plan makes health insurance premiums go down as a result. It’s kind of like car insurance. Does it make sense to only require those involved in an accident to purchase insurance only after the accident and then require the insurance company to cover it?
That’s why I remain steadfast in my support of socialized medicine.
August 31st, 2010 at 11:37 am
GNProgressive: Comprehensive health reform is extremely complex, with a lot of moving parts and technical issues. Complaining about the length of the bill is kind of a weak argument against it. By “ramming it through,” I suppose you mean a proposal that was debated during the Presidential campaign and deliberated by Congress for more than a year.
Cap-and-trade has already proven to be a highly successful market-based approach to reducing sulfer dioxide and nitrogen oxide.
August 31st, 2010 at 11:38 am
Never said I supported the Republican plan, only that the democrats plan is definitely not the right path. Maybe a couple hundred pages of it, but I would take nothing instead of the terrifying things I have came across in health care and wall street reform. America is really SOL because neither of the parties has any clue what they are doing.
August 31st, 2010 at 11:44 am
GNProgressive: You don’t support the Republican plan, and you don’t support the Democratic plan. “Neither of the parties has any clue what they are doing?” Who else is there? Was there some other health reform plan that could have passed both houses of Congress and been signed into law by President Obama? If not, we would have been stuck with no plan.
Like it or not, the Democratic health reform plan is the law of the land.
August 31st, 2010 at 11:54 am
There wasn’t another plan, but when we start accepting things because it is the only option then we get into some dangerous territory. I don’t know about you, but I’ve gone through the entire CRS report for Health Care and much of the actual bill. There are dozens if not hundreds of little, non-relevant regulations that will choke this economy to a halt. They were never debated, they have little to nothing to do with fixing health care, yet they were included in the bill. Once analyzed, democrats and republicans would probably be against all of them, but its just sad that no one bothered to even read this bill and analyze it before voting it into effect.
August 31st, 2010 at 11:59 am
GNProgressive,
I only hope that you do not just give up. The majority of us agree something needs to be done, but when it comes down to the brass tacks we all find reasons to object. Well something is better then nothing. As imperfect as it is, the results the Democrats came up with is better then the Republican alternative.
Ever heard about how indecisive it is to subject something to committee? Well the authors of our constitution subjected us to not just one, but two committees (both the House and the Senate). I might not like everything that happens as a result, but I still marvel at those who were so motivated to find a system that keeps things civil. When I see a need for revolution, I can go to the ballot box instead of feeling the need to take up arms.